Virgilian Pastoral Poetry - Spring 2008
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Syllabus for Latin 316A
Assignments for Latin 316A
NB Please note this ABBREVIATION:
NLG = Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar
Important: Please Begin each of your questions, observations, and responses with your first name.
1. Week I 01.14 - 01.18
BriAnne - First wiki post of 2008! Hooray! Anyway, I am having issues with noram in line 24. I can't find a listing for it or anything like it in my dictionary. Also, can someone remind me what the correlative pair quantum...tantum in lines 25 and 26 means? I know I should know this, I've just been struck with temporary ignorance, apparently.
noram is a syncopated pluperfect. The full form is noveram (from nosco, noscere, novi).
Kyle - I think quantum. . .tantum means "as much as ".
Emily - I don't understand what the adjective patulae in the first line modifies, and I can't find doces. Brianne, I can't find noram from line 24, either!
BriAnne - Thanks, Kyle, that sounds about right. Emily, I think patulae might modify fagi, both being genitive singular? And I took doces as the 2nd person singular present active indicitive of doceo, -ere: to teach. Also, I've just come to line 34. Anyone know what the heck meis is? At first, I thought it looked like a form of ego, but no such form exists, that I can find.
Right, BriAnne. patulae modifies fagi. Note that many names of trees are second declension feminine nouns. Right also about doces.
Kyle - I'm pretty sure meis comes from meus, -a, -um, meaning "my."
Emily - Brianne, I haven't gotten that far yet, but could meis be the dative or ablative plural of the adjective meus -a -um...?
BriAnne - Again, thanks Kyle and Emily. I'm uncharacteristically dumb tonight, it seems.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Ok, so the "u's" are actually "v's"?? Like when v's are u's? Example in line 9 "boues" is that bos bovis?? and in line 10 uellem is really "vellem" and so on right? hmmm thanks thats all.
boues = boves. uellem = vellem.
Lindsey- In line 15, what is the subject of reliquit? I have gemellos as the object. Also, I don't know how to translate in nuda conixa. Is conixa from coniveo, conivere: to shut the eyes, sleep?
Subject of reliquit is the she-goat that hanc (line 13) refers to. At line 15 we have a prepositional phrase silice in nuda. conixa is nominative singular, perfect passive participle of the deponent conitor, coniti, conixus sum.
Colleen - I always wait to post on the Wiki until after I've completed my translation. I might have to alter that, because everyone seems to have the same questions I did. I'm still having trouble in line 10, though. I can't decide whether agresti modifies calamo, is subjectified, or something completely different.
2. Week II 01.21 - 01.25
2. 1. Ecloga I
BriAnne - I'm starting on the hard copy tonight, and I'm having trouble on the line 40 at servitio me exire. I know there is elision there, but is it from the o across the intervocallic m to the e? Or just the two es? Or do all three vowels go together? Also, in line 44, I seem to be missing a syllable.Good question about elision in line 40. Intervocalic m is affected by elision only when it is the final letter in a word. The only elision in the words BriAnne cites is between me and exire.
About the scansion of line 44, keep trying. It looks pretty straightforward, i.e. no elisions or tricky stuff to fret over.
Emily - In lines 59-63, I'm having a little trouble coming up with an English equivalent of the Latin, especially with the antes. I read Clausen's note about it being a set of impossibilities, but I'm struggling with an English word for ante that sounds better than just "before."
It's helpful to see the structure of these lines. The clauses in lines 59-62 are independent; line 63 is dependent and marked by the subordinating word quam. Virgil has split antequam into its simple elements ante, which then functions as an adverb implying comparison, and quam. See NLG 434. So the thought is that all these impossibilia will happen before ....
Lindsey- I'm having trouble with lines 53-55. Is saepes the subject of saudebit? In that sentance, that's the only nominative and verb I'm seeing, but "the hedge will advise you" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
saepes is the subject of suadebit, just as you say. The idea is that the hedge, whose willow flowers are being fed on by bees, will lull someone to sleep.
Lindsey- Thanks, that helped me make sense of those lines. I just have a few little puzzle pieces I need help fitting in. In lines 64-65, I'm not sure what to do with alii sitientis and pars cretae. I have "From here we will go to our African ... We will come to the swift Scythian Oaxen." I'm guessing Oaxen is the name of a river? In line 71, I don't know what to do with quo, unless perhaps it's an exclamatory "how" instead of interrogative. Lastly, I couldn't find a translation for ite.
lines 64 f. - alii and pars have a distributive function here. Some (of us, nos ... ibimus) shall go to ..., others (pars ... veniemus) shall come to .... sitientis (long is) modifies Afros. Oaxen is the name of a river, accusative here, modified by rapidum, on which the genitive cretae depends. "chalk-rolling Oaxes."
line 71 - quo is exclamatory here, but it does the same thing as the interrogative adverb. "to what point has discord taken the miserable citizens!"
line 74 - ite is the plural imperative of eo, ire.
Colleen - I'm having difficulty scanning Line 45 properly. I began with a dactyl, and I think that might be the problem. Hold on. Is there an elision between the e of pascite and the u of ut, because that would solve all my problems. So I think I figured that one out, but if anyone has better insight, let me know. As far as translation, I didn't see how carpetis (Line 78) was used. I translated it as "to make use of", but that definition doesn't seem to fit. Any suggestions?
You answered your own question about the scansion of line 45. At line 78 carpetis is fut. ind. of carpo, carpere = graze on.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Hey ya'll just curious about pecoris in line 50, the only form that comes close to it in my dictionary is "pecorosus, -a, -um" rich in cattle?? Anyone find a translation? Also I had the same problem in line 54 with apibus is that apis, apis?? The Hyblaean ox?? Im not sure that's right.
apis = bee.
Kyle - pecoris comes from pecus, which means like a herd. My question is about quae, semper because I don't know how quae is functioning. What is it? Is it relative or something else?
quae at line 53 is relative pronoun; its antecedent is saepes. See Clausen's note ad loc.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm also curious about "cerui" in line 59, I wasn't able to find the definition but it seems to me that its 1st person, perfect, singular.
cervi is nom. pl. of cervus.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Just remembered deer!! Thanks!
2. 2. Ecloga 2.1-30 (for 24 January)
Emily - I am having trouble with canto quae solitus in line 23. I am thinking that solitus is the perfect passive participle of soleo, but I still can't quite make it work...
Colleen - Emily, I think it means that he sings whatever shepherds are accustomed to sing, but I'm not sure so I'd wait for Dr. Clark's input. I had trouble scanning again. I somehow ended up with an extra syllable in line 4. I understand that the a in incondita is long, the o in solus is short and the u in solus is end caps. Due to how I translated the beginning of the sentence, I ended up with condita oddly between my 5th and 6th stanzas. Is there anything abnormal about this line that I'm missing. I didn't notice any elisions.
The a at the end of incondita is short. Did you see the elision between ibi and haec?
Kyle - I think we're in indirect question here. Canto means I sing, and the quae starts the iq, and we need to understand cantaret or something like that. I think it means "I sing what Amphion was accustomed (to singing)."
Colleen and Kyle are on the right track about quae solitus (line 23). quae solitus 0=est cantare and subject = Amphion. Not indirect direct but a nice example of a noun relative cause.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Hey guys, I was wondering about "siluis" in line 5, I'm assuming that Corydon is shouting around about his love to the mountains and to BLANK, what does this word mean? thanks
and the overall jist is a guy's infatuation? fun stuff.
Colleen - Thank you, Dr. Clark. I missed that elision. Why do ibi and haec elide? I thought that elisions only occurred for intervocalic m's. Is it all intervocalic liquids instead? And KA, that u in siluis (line 15) represents a v I believe. In that case, he'd be shouting to the mountains and the trees.
Lindsey- Colleen, the h doesn't count as a consonant, so it's like there's two vowels in a row, ibi aec, so one vowel is dropped. This translation went pretty well for me up untill the end. I couldn't find a translation for libeat (l 28), and am not sure what its subject is. ll. 26-27, non ego Daphnin iudice te mutuam, I'm not sure how to put together. I have "I do not fear," and am taking te as an accusative and iudice either as imperative "to judge" or "judge" in the ablative. I don't know what case Daphnin is. Could we possibly get a handout for Greek (I'm assuming it's Greek, anyway) noun case endings? I tried to find something online, but just confused myself.
3. Week III 01.28 - 02.01
3. 1. Ecloga 2.31-73 (for Tuesday, 29 January)
BriAnne - Did anyone find a translation for apros in line 59? I can't seem to find it or anything that looks like it.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- yeah the accusative pl apros after much digging around i found comes from the noun aper, apri m and it means wild boar.
Kyle - I'm having trouble with line 51. I just don't know which adjectives modify which nouns. I tried scanning the line, but I had trouble with that, so I'm still unsure.
Bri- Clausen's note on line 51 helped me a lot. I was confused about tenera mostly, but he puts it with lanugine.
Emily - Kyle, in line 51, cana and mala go together to mean "quinces," and both adjectives tenera and lanugine modify them, so it's "I myself will gather the soft wooly quinces." By lanugine, I guess that is something akin to peach fuzz.
Right, Emily. And to be terminological about it, what kind of ablative use do we see in tenera lanugine?
Colleen - I'm going to make an educated guess and say ablative of quality.
3. 2. Ecloga 3.1-43 (for Tuesday, 29 January)
Kathryn-Alizabeth - i had a question about risere in line 9 Ecloga III, anyone know what it means?
risere = riserunt, from rideo, ridere, risi, risum.
Bri- Can anyone help me with line 4? It seems to be like on verb overload.
Emily - yeah, I was also having trouble with line 4. From above in line 3, I took ipse as the subject and Neaeram as direct object, the main verb being fovet. So the first part is something like "while he himself courts Neaera..." and then I took ne with veretur, illa being subject...I don't know, I translated that part as "lest she assuredly prefer me to him," because veretur means something like "to be certain."
Close. The dum clause has ipse as subject, just as Emily tells us, and has two verbs, fovet and veretur (from the deponent vereor = to fear. ne me sibi praeferat is an object clause after the verb of fearing ("and he's afraid she may prefer me to him").
Colleen - I'm having trouble understanding what meus ille caper fuit (line 23) means. I translated it as "my goat itself was." I think I might be missing some aspect of the si clause.
meus ille caper fuit (line 23) = "That goat was mine."
3. 3. Ecloga 3.44-111 (for Thursday, 31 January)
Kyle - Am I supposed to understand a qui at the beginning of line 110, so that it says "whatever lovers who either. . .or?"
The indefinite pronoun quisquis (nominative singular) is subject of metuet and experietur. amores at line 109 is accusative direct object.
Colleen - Are you seriously almost done, Kyle? Good job! I was wondering why Orpheaque (line 46) shows Orpheus's name in what can only be feminine or neuter form. Clausen notes that this does refer to Orpheus, and I thought Orpheus was a guy.
Orpheus is a guy. Orphea at line 46 is a Greek accusative. BTW, I've noted the requests for some kind of reference to help with these Greek case forms. I'm working on it.
Emily - I found ervo from line 100 as "vetch," but I'm kind of confused. What is a vetch? Oh, and I had a little trouble with line 60, mostly Ab Iove principium Musae where there is no verb.
Right, ervum, -i = a vetch. As Webster's says, vetch is any of a number of leafy, climbing or trailing plants of the pea family, grown chiefly for fodder.
spectate  |  | hoc est ervum  |
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I was wondering about line 52 "mora" is that talking about the mulberry tree or procrastination?! There's been so much discussion about plants, it seems plausable but they're the same possible forms...what's being discussed here?
"In me there will not be any delay." Damoetas is just expressing his eagerness to begin the singing contest.
Lindsey- Why in Damoetas's retort to Menalcas about the cups does Vergil repeat the exact same line about the cups never having been used (43 and 47)? Is it supposed to be sarcastic and smart-mouthed, or perhaps emphatic?
4. Week IV 02.04 - 02.08
4. 1. Ecloga 3.78-111 (for Thursday, 7 February)
Emily - I am having some trouble with the scansion of lines 106 and 109. I know that the first syllable scans long, so Dic would scan long, and then I was thinking that the ui of quibus would also scan long because it is a diphthong, but then there is no way that the bus of quibus could scan long either...so does ui scan short, making the first foot a dactyl...? And I am also confused about the scansion of quisquis from line 109. I just can't make it fit...
line 106 - Phonetically qu = kw. The i in this syllable is short. So the first metron is a dactyl.
line 109 - quisquis (after the bucolic diaeresis) begins the 5th metron, which is a dactyl.
Kyle - Line 101, is excitum est an impersonal passive verb or something, because I don't see any neuter nominative subject, only amor which is masculine.
Are we thinking of the same line? I read line 101 like this: idem amor exitium pecori pecorisque magistro. We have to supply est. So -- amor = subject; exitium = subject complement. pecori and magistro are datives of reference.
Kyle - Oh. I was looking at Perseus, and I guess they put in est on their own. Hmmm. . .that kinda makes me skeptical about Perseus now. I'll be more careful in my reading from now on.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I was wondering about elision, I know its use but I have this recollection that sometimes you dont have to use it because otherwise the line won't have 6 feet, I thought that was the case maybe in line 108 but I figured it out and was just wondering if that is a rule or if I made it up entirely.
There are occasions where the poet takes a bit of metrical license, such as correption (particularly at points of hiatus) and lengthening in arsi. But at 108 the only point where elision is possible is nostrum inter, and the elision (final intervocalic m) occurs. The line consists of spondees except for the dactyl in the fifth metron.
Colleen - Sorry! I know no one will probably get to this before class, but I was wondering how freely we may insert verbs into sentences. I did it a few times in this passage. I was just curious if there were any standard rules.
5. Week V 02.11 - 02.15
5. 1. Ecloga 4 (for Tuesday, 12 February)
| spectate |  | haec est myrica |
qua at line 13 = aliqua (after si, nisi, num, and ne, all the ali-s drop away!), indefinite adjective here modifying vestigia. And si = "if".
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Also another question in line 25, I was wondering about the function of "volgo" I have found it to be the same as "vulgus" and my question is it a noun or an adverb? to be translated if an ablative noun "by the public" (which doesnt make much sense) or as an adverb "commonly" which is what I'm leaning towards. Just wondering about that.
Emily - Kathryn-Alizabeth, in line 25, I took volgo as an adverb meaning "everywhere." Hope that helps.
Emily - I am having trouble with lines 18-20. In line 18, I think cultu is a supine, but I have no clue what it is doing in the sentence. I am also confused about the function and meaning of nullo. I am assuming that tellus is the subject of the verb fundet, as well...the whole sentence just seems drawn out since it spans across several lines.
cultu (line 18) is not the supine but ablative singular (means) of the 4th-declension noun cultus. nullo modifies cultu. And tellus is indeed the subject of fundet.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Thanks Emily! I was wondering in line 40, is patietur also supposed to be assumed in the next sentence? So that "the vineyard will not endure the curved blade"?
Yes, patietur is to be understood with the subject vinea.
Colleen - In line 46. I don't understand what is going on. Are the Fates telling people to run? If so, who is currite aimed at? P.S. Tamarisk is prettier than I imagined it to be.
Kyle - I think currite is telling the new age that is being described to hurry up. Also, what's the verb for tu in line 8?
Coleman ed., Virgil: Eclogues (Cambridge, 1977) comments: "talia saecla is either vocative or more likely accusative of the space traversed, with currite addressed to the spindles fusis.
tu (line 8) anticipates the vocative and imperative casta fave Lucina (line 10).
5. 2. Ecloga 5.1-35 (for Thursday, 14 February)
 |  |  |
| haec est saliunca | hic est paliurus | hoc est lolium |
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I had a question about line 9, what is the function of si in the sentence? I dont understand, I've translated it as "why does the same struggle to overtop Phoebus by singing?" I dont know what the si is doing.
quid si = "what if ...?" idem = the same (person), i.e. Amyntas. Engish might say, "what if he too ...?"
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm wondering about the last few lines. Is decori est assumed for the sentences following it? But then it would need to be plural, so is it just "as grapes to vine" ?
decori (dative singular of decus, decoris, n.) is a dative of purpose here. See Oxford Latin Course, Pt. III, p. 176. This dative is to be understood with the next three ut- clauses.
Kyle - Okay, so decori is a dative of purpose in the 3 ut clauses, but what about right after that: "tu decus omne tuis." Decus is obviously not dative, but I so expected it to be parallel to the lines before it.
Right you are. decus at line 34 is subject complement (still a predicative function). The rhetorical device at work in lines 32-34 is priamel. The shift away from strict parallelism at line 34 further emphasizes the term of climactic interest, i.e. tu.
Emily - in line 4, can est aequum be understood as "to be right..." or is it just est? There is an entry for aequum est in the dictionary, but I don't want it to lead me astray.
Right, Emly. tibi me est aequum parere = "it's right for me to obey you."
Emily - in line 7, I'm confused about which words go with which other words. Does silvestris describe labrusca and raris describe racemis...?
Kyle - I don't know about aequum est, but I think you've got the right idea about your second question.
I think so too.
Lindsey- I'm a little confused with line 16 and the verb credit. A tree can't "go" or "withdraw," can it? Can a tree "yield"? I know pine trees poison the ground against other trees, is that the idea here?
The verb you're thinking about here is cedit. It's used in the sense of "is inferior to."
Lindsey- oh, thanks, that makes sense, and yes, I meant cedit. In lines 25-26, I'm having trouble with the double negative nulla neque. I have "nor did no four-footed things taste the river," which means that the animals were drinking, right? But since the rest of the passage describes things behaving abnormally b/c they're mourning Daphnis, shouldn't the animals not be drinking (just one negative)?
Colleen - I had the same question, Lindsey. I think I went ahead and took the double negative nulla neque (25 - 26) as litotes.
neque at line 25 reinforces the first negative nulla, so the overall idea is a strongly negative one.
6. Week VI 02.18 - 02.22
6. 1. Ecloga 5.36-90 (for Tuesday, 19 February)
| Index Nominum Graecorum in Ecloga v |
| ad locum | casus | versus | nominativus et genitivus |
| Menalca | vocativus | 4 | Menalcas, Menalcae |
| Amyntas | nominativus | 8 | Amyntas, Amyntae |
| Amyntas | nominativus | 15 | Amyntas, Amyntae |
| Amyntas | nominativus | 18 | Amyntas, Amyntae |
| Daphnin | accusativus | 20 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphni | vocativus | 25 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphni | vocativus | 27 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 29 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 30 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Apollo | nominativus | 35 | Apollo, Apollonis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 41 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 43 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphnin | accusativus | 51 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 52 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Stimichon | nominativus | 55 | Stimichon, Stimichonis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 57 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Pana(que) | accusativus | 59 | Pan, Panos |
| Dryadas(que) | accusativus pl. | 59 | Dryas, Dryadis |
| Daphnis | nominativus | 61 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Menalca | vocativus | 64 | Menalcas, Menalcae |
| Daphni | vocativus | 66 | Daphnis, Daphnidis |
| Damoetas | nominativus | 72 | Damoetas, Damoetae |
| Aegon | nominativus | 72 | Aegon, Aegonis |
| Corydon | nominativus | 86 | Corydon, Corydonis |
| Alexin | accusativus | 86 | Alexis, Alexis |
| Antigenes | nominativus | 89 | Antigenes, Antigenis |
| Menalca | vocativus | 90 | Menalcas, Menalcae |
Emily - That chart helps a lot! I have a question about Latin scansion. Do pairs of vowels after the letter q count as diphthongs...? Such as in quoque...? I'm a bit confused about the issue, because there are several instances in lines 45-52 where the only way the line fits the dactylic hexameter is if those vowels scan short.
Colleen - I remember asking Dr. Clark about diphthongs, and he did say that not all instances of two simultaneous vowels are diphthongs. I don't think the uo or ue in quoque count as diphthongs. I'm sure he actually has an explanation for that, though. I just wanted to see if anyone knew what was going on in lines 60 - 61. I translated both retia and dolum as accusatives. Is dolum an object complement?
Right, Colleen. Consider qu as a consonant. o and e in quoque are both short.
dolum (line 61) is in apposition to retia (line 60).
Kyle - In line 83, does nec work like ne and therefore make quae aliquae?
No, nec doesn't work like ne. quae (line 83) is relative pronoun. Its antecedent is flumina (line 84), which has been absorbed into the relative clause ("nor rivers which ...").
Kathryn-Alizabeth- So, I have a question about line 56 candidus because it could be neuter/masculine singular, and in that case does it modify limen or Daphnis. I'm thinking that it's modifying the subject which I think is Daphnis, but why on earth is the adjective so far apart from its noun, they're literally at opposite end of the sentence. Silly poets.
candidus (a first- and second-declension adjective) could only be masculine. It modifies Daphnis. The separation of candidus from its noun Daphnis is a good example of the expressive use of hyperbaton. It answers the emphasis, also secured by separation of words having grammatical affinity, at line 20 (Exstinctum ... Daphnin). This structural respondence underscores the complementary themes of the songs of Mopsus and Menalcas, the death and apotheosis, respectively, of Daphnis.
Emily - I was wondering about that in line 56 as well, but I am also confused as to what insuetum modifies...oh, and I think apotheosis has to be one of my all-time favorite words, though it is rarely used...
insuetum (line 56) modifies limen. In his note ad loc. Clausen quotes Housman: "insuetus dicitur qui nunc primum aliquid facit patiturve ...." ("that is called insuetus which does or suffers something now for the first time"). The limen is called insuetum because it undergoes unprecedented observation on the occasion of Daphnis' apotheosis [glad you like this word, Emily
].Lindsey- In line 68, why is the verb statuam subjunctive? I don't see it as subordinate or dependant on another verb, especially since novo in the previous line, a similar sentence, isn't subjunctive.
statuam (line 68) is future indicative. novo (line 67) is an adjective modifying lacte (new, i.e fresh milk).
6. 2. Ecloga 6.1-30 (for Thursday, 21 February)
| Index Nominum Graecorum in Ecloga vi |
| ad locum | casus | versus | nominativus et genitivus |
| Pierides | vocativus pl. | 13 | Pierides, Pieridum |
| Chromis | nominativus sg. | 13 | Chromis, Chromis |
| Mnasyllos | nominativus sg. | 13 | Mnasyllos, Mnasylli |
| Aeglê | nominativus sg. | 21 | Aeglê, Aeglês |
| Naiadum | genitivus pl. | 22 | Nâis, Nâidos |
| Rhodopê | nominativus sg. | 30 | Rhodopê, Rhodopês |
| Orphea (nb ea scans as one syllable) | accusativus sg. | 30 | Orpheus, Orpheî |
| Nêrea | accusativus sg. | 35 | Nêreus, Nêreî |
| Hylan | accusativus sg. | 43 | Hylâs, Hylae |
| Hyla | vocativus sg. | 44 | Hylâs, Hylae |
| Pasiphaên | accusativus sg. | 46 | Pasiphaê, Pasiphaês |
| Proetides (short es) | nominativus pl. | 48 | Proetides, Proetidum |
| Hesperidum | genitivus pl. | 61 | Hesperis, Hesperidis |
| Phaethontiadas | accusativus pl. | 62 | Phaethontiades, Phaethontiadum |
| Aonas | accusativus pl. | 65 | Aones, Aonum (nb A [long] - o not a diphthong) |
| Eurôtâs | nominativus sg. | 83 | Eurôtâs, Eurôtae |
Emily - I am confused about the parts of lines 6 and 7 that are in parentheses, mainly I'm having trouble fitting tuas cupiant into the sentence and it make sense in English...I know it is 3rd person plural subjunctive, but I don't know exactly what it is doing or what it quite means...
Emily - Wait, I think I figured those lines out...do they mean something like, "For those will abound to you who wish to speak praises for your (deeds?), Varus, and to put to verse gloomy battles"...?
Yes! Virgil is disclaiming epic themes in favor of pastoral ones.
Emily - in line 8, is harundine ablative of means or instrument...?
harundine is ablative of means (same thing as ablative of instrument). Good pun, Emily! LOL
Kyle - I think you're right, he's saying that he's going to play the song on a reed pipe. At least that's what I think. In line 26, I know what mercedis means and that it's genitive, but I don't understand how the meaning makes sense in the sentence.
Good question about line 26. mercedis is partitive genitive with aliud by analogy with aliquid mercedis. Cf. Coleman1 ad loc.: "'for her there'll be another reward' .... It is a tactful allusion to Silenus' sexual appetite, which can hardly have been unforeseen by the Naiadum pulcherrima when she joined in the prank. Her presence thus enables the old satyr's character as himself captus amore to be exemplified."
Kathryn-Alizabeth- In line 14, is videre just another poetic version thats supposed to be 3 person plural, I assume past tense? But also in line 19, what does luserat mean? I couldnt find it anywhere!
videre (line 14) = vîdêrunt. luserat (line 19) is pluperfect indicative of ludo, ludere, lusi. The sense here is "had deluded."
Colleen - In the scansion of pascere oportet ovis (line 5), I elided the last e of pascere and the first o of oportet. However, it only fit in with the rest of my scansion if it was a short elision. Is this possible or am I making up my own Latin?
Your elision is correct, Colleen. The result of elision can be a short syllable.
7. Week VII 02.25 - 02.29
7. 1. Ecloga 6.31-86 (for Tuesday, 26 February)
Emily - in lines 57 and 58, does obvia go with vestigia? I'm not quite sure what that means. Does obvia mean something like "exposed," and is vestigia referring to "footprints" of the bull...?
Yes and yes. vestigia refers to the tracks of the bull, which are errandbunda though it is really Pasiphae who is wandering. obvia, modifying vestigia, could be understood as "exposed to" (with the dative oculis). English might say, following the Latin fairly closely, "perhaps in some way by chance the tracks of the bull may bear themselves before our eyes."
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I was wondering about "exordia" in line 33, its meaning is "warp of a web" what on earth does that mean?! My dictionary has it also listed as "beginning" however that is when exordium is in the genitive, what's a spider web doing in the sentence?
In this context exordia = elements.
Kyle - In line 53, is fultus maybe in the middle voice, since he's actually supporting himself?
That's how I would read it, Kyle. I'm puzzled by Coleman's note ad loc., which offers this translation of the line: "with his snow-white flank supported on soft hyacinths..." (surely an understanding of fultus as a middle voice). After citing passages where fulcio means "to press against," he argues against a middle voice interpretation of fultus at E. 6.53: "However, a middle meaning for fultus here, viz. 'pressing down on', would probably require latere ... fultus hyacinthum.'" There are lots of examples where Virgil uses a passive participle (of a non-deponent verb) with an accusative, and commentators often observe that these are instances of the middle voice in Latin. I'm afraid I don't follow Coleman's analysis here, but he's at Cambridge and I'm not.
Colleen - I had to look up the middle voice in Allen and Greenough (section 397 c). From this note, I think Vergil is using fultus (53) as a passive participle describing latus (53), but I'm not 100% positive. I'm having difficulty translating secuta est (74). Are Scylla and Nisus followed by a rumor? Is that the idea?
Colleen, about your comment on fultus, cf. my reply to Kyle above. As for secuta est (line 74), note that the verb is deponent and fama is subject, with quam (referring to Scylla) as direct object. BTW, line 75 has another example of an accusative with a passive participle (succinctam ... inguina ("having girded up her loins with barking dogs").
Lindsey- I'm confused about lines 43-44. I can't find translations for Hylan or Hyla. The closest thing I could find was Hylas, -ae, a youth that Hercules loved, but that doesn't work. Is Hyla a sort of cry like "alas" or "oh, help!" ?
You found the right word. Hyla is vocative. As the story goes, Hylas was with Hercules on the voyage of the Argo. The Argonauts stop at the Propontis, Hylas goes looking for water, and is abducted by river nymphs. The sailors hunt for him in vain. Cf. Clausen's note at 43-4.
Emily - according to several readings I found online, Pasiphae was immortal, being the daughter of the sun-god Helios. So I guess she never died.
But Phaethon was also a child of Helios and he was killed trying to control his father's chariot. Nevertheless, there is reason to believe that Pasiphae was immortal. If you wish, you may learn more about Pasiphae
.| spectate |  | apio crinis ornatus (E. 6.68) |
7. 2. Ecloga 6.74-86 (for Thursday, 28 February)
Emily - I am fairly baffled by the last couple of lines of this Eclogue. I am thinking Vesper is the subject of both verbs iussit and processit, or is that incorrect? I understand that the infinitives cogere and referre go with iussit, but it seems like the idea is reversed, first talking about "ordering," THEN talking about "coming down from..."
Vesper is subject of iussit and processit, both at line 86. "The evening star bade the gathering of sheep in the stables and rose in the reluctant sky."
7. 3. Ecloga 7.1-28 (for Thursday, 28 February)
Emily - in line 1, does forte describe Daphnis, meaning "brave" or "mighty Daphnis," or does it mean something like "by chance, Daphnis had seated himself..."?
forte = "by chance" (really the ablative case of fors, fortis. For the adjective meaning "brave" to modify the nominative Daphnis, the form would be fortis, right?
Emily - I am having trouble with line 17. I found that posthabere can take the dative to mean "think (blank in the dative case) less important than..." so is the thought, "I had thought the game of his less important than mine..." but then I don't know what to do with seria...
Actually the construction is posthabeo = I hold x (in the accusative) in less esteem in favor of y (in the dative). seria at E. 7.17 is a synonym for negotia. So, "I held my business in less esteem in favor of their game, i.e. contest."
Emily - ah, Dr. Clark, that makes SO much more sense! I thought the first 26 lines of this Eclogue were extremely straightforward and rather easy, or maybe the last Eclogue (6) was just difficult...ha.
Colleen - I agree regarding the relative ease of E.7.1-26. I'm not sure what eque (13) means. Obviously, Clausen feels that it is something Latin readers should recognize, because he even comments that he didn't see why Servius felt the need to explain eque by "et e sacra, ut aque chao." I translated this phrase as "..and from the sacred, and as from the beginning of the world." Is eque simply e plus que?
Yes, eque = et ê. Note the prepositional phrase êque sacrâ ...quercû (from the sacred oak). In his comment Servius is simply citing a similar occurrence in Virgil of the enclitic conjunction attached to a preposition (Georgics 4.347).
Kyle - What is placitum (line 27)? Is it a supine or something else?
placitum (line 27) is a substantized use of the participle. placitum, -i = that which pleases one. ultra placitum = more than is agreeable.
Lindsey-I'm confused how to translate the the si clause in line 23. I'm not sure what to do with omnes, which I'm reading as nt, pl, acc, "all things," but possumus is intransative and is second person, pl, right? So omnes can't be the subject or the direct object. That's my thought process, anyway.
omnes at 23 is nom. pl. masc./fem. and modifies the implied subject of possumus (nos). "If we all cannot ... (sc. facere versûs)."
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm kinda confused how to use "quid" in line 10; if you are able to cease "what" work? Or is it like, "any"? So its indirect question? But I still dont know how to make it flow.
Kyle - Since quid follows a si, it should be read as aliquid.
Right, quid (line 10) stands for aliquid, not a direct object (because cessare is intransitive) but an adverbial accusative expressing degree. We could say, "hang out a little".
8. Week VIII 03.03 - 03.05
8. 1. Ecloga 7.29-70 (for Tuesday, 4 March)
Emily - I am having trouble with finding a translation for proprium in line 31...I could only find an adjectival meaning, something like, "own special" or "particular."
proprium (line 31) is an adjective alright, the basic sense of which is "one's own" or "appropriate." Coleman ad loc. says: "'if it turns out that this properly belongs to you', i.e. 'if this is in fact an appropriate offering'. hoc refers either to Micon's dedication or to the statue promised in the following line." Personally I lean towards the reference to the promised statue, because if the reference is to the previous offerings, i.e caput apri and cornua cervi, I would expect haec rather than hoc.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm curious what "et" is doing in line 56, "but if beautiful Alexis would depart from these mts, you would see dry rivers" but I dont understand why/how an "et" would function in that translation.
et at E. 7.56 = etiam, "even".
Colleen - I don't see how plurimus or laeto fit into line 60. I translated plurimus as describing Jupiter. I substantized laeto into "happy people." I'm still not happy with this translation, though. Any ideas?
Right, plurimus modifies Iuppiter, here a metonym for "sky." laeto modifies imbri (ablative). "A copious sky will come down with happy rain." Sounds weird, but we get the picture. Nature participates in the singer's joy at Phyllis' arrival.
Kyle - Who is the tibi in line 41? Is it still Galatea from Corydon's song, or is it someone else?
Still Galatea.
Lindsey- The last two lines, 69-70, are confusing to me. What case is Thyrsin (Thyrsim)? Does illo go w/ tempore? What's up with the two Corydons?
Thyrsin is accusative. illo modifies tempore. Corydon is repeated for rhetorical effect. Or one Corydon is to be understood in the predicate.
8. 1. 1. Certamen Pastorum Corydonis et Thyrsidis, Discipulis Iudicibus
| Discipuli ostendunt qui in Eclogae vii certamine victus sit, qui vicerit, Cordyon an Thyrsis |
| | cantus i (vv. 21-28) | cantus ii (vv. 29-36) | cantus iii (vv. 37-44) | cantus iv (vv. 45-52) | cantus v (vv. 53-60) | cantus vi (vv. 61-68) |
| Colleen | Corydon | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Corydon | Corydon |
| Emily | Corydon | Thyrsis | Corydon | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Corydon |
| Kat-Ali | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Corydon | Corydon |
| Kyle | Corydon | Thyrsis | Corydon | Corydon | Thyrsis | Thyrsis |
| Lindsey | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Corydon | Thyrsis | Thyrsis | Corydon |
| Tota per cantus singulares |
| cantus i (vv. 21-28) | cantus ii (vv. 29-36) | cantus iii (vv. 37-44) | cantus iv (vv. 45-52) | cantus v (vv. 53-60) | cantus vi (vv. 61-68) |
| Corydon (3-2) | Thyrsis (5-0) | Corydon (3-2) | Thyrsis (4-1) | Thyrsis (3-2) | Corydon (4-1) |
| Tota per cantus omnes |
| Thyrsis (17) |
| Corydon (13) |
8. 2. Ecloga 8.1-41 (for Thursday, 6 March)
Emily - in line 10, does coturno Sophocleo go with digna or is it an ablative of means?
Sophocleo ... digna coturno (E. 8.10) - coturno is ablative with digna. BTW, this is the association of the buskin with tragedy, as I mentioned Tuesday.
Colleen - In line 24, can I supply an est with passus? I was also wondering if anyone had read Clausen's note about the deletion of line 28. I wasn't sure whether to delete it or not, but I had already translated it earlier in the poem, so it's not a problem either way.
Yes, supply est with passus at E. 8.24.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- So, this is awful but I have a question on line 3 about "certantis" is that substantized, going with the quos in line 2? And the bulls were unmindful of the grasses? So they were too busy to munch because they were busy watching the contest? And then in line 10, what is "coturno?" I dont have any listing in my dictionary, the closest i get is coturnix, -icis and I honestly dont think we have quails running around here.
certantis (E. 8.3) - not substantized but modifying, as you suggest, the relative quos. And the cows are too interested in the contest to munch. Finally coturno (line 10) is ablative from coturnus, a boot.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- And a question about line 16, Damon is leaning on a well smoothed olive?! I took tereti as a dative agreeing with olivae and that grammatically makes sense but not the translation. I cant find any other definition to make sense of it, olives dont support people though....unless in pastoral poetry, JK anybody get something else that makes sense?
olivae means the olive tree, not the fruit. tereti does modify olivae. The adjective can mean "smooth" but also "nicely rounded." So Damon leans against a nice round olive tree trunk. Nothing fantastical here.
Emily - Hehe, KA, I was confused about tereti olivae too, but I thought it meant he was pressing smooth olives, like making olive oil or something. Then I read Clausen's note, and it said something about "leaning against" and the olive tree, just as Dr. Clark has mentioned above. Ha, so much for thinking a shepherd was making olive oil...
9. Week IX 03.10 - 03.14
9. 1. Ecloga 8.42-109 (for Tuesday, 11 March)
Colleen - In line 108, ipsi and sibi are right next to each other, and I'm having trouble translating them. I know ipsi is dative, and sibi is also dative. I ended up translating it as "for them themselves." It seems redundant to me, though. P.S. I now understand why Dr. Clark calls this the voodoo poem.
I think ipsi is nominative plural, intensifying the subject idea of fingunt ("do lovers themselves ...), though it's interesting to note that ipsi could be dative and so intensify the reflexive sibi. Good point, Colleen, but just a small caution: Redundancy in an English equivalent may not reflect a corresponding redundancy in the Latin. in your translation 'them themselves" seems redundant because of the repeated element "them." ipsi sibi involves no such repetition, and the semantic content of the reflexive and the intensive, regardless of whether the cases are the same, is distinctly different.
Kyle - Why is serae. . .nocti (line 88) dative?
The dative is owing to decedere (E. 8.88), "to give way to, yield to."
Emily - in line 105, what is the subject of corripuit...? I am having trouble finding something nominative...could it be cinis from line 106...?
cinis (106) is subject of corripuit. cinis here means something closer to embers. So the embers have caught up in flickering flames the material on the altar (altaria).
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I am so confused about 73-75, s/thing about colors and tying? And what is "licium"? I got the "woof"
licia = threads. For the colors, cf. Coleman ad loc.: "triplici...colore indicates that there were three different colours of thread, white, red and black according to Servius; terna...licia that the threads were taken in groups of three. The differentiation (diversa) by colour implies three groups, each containing either a different colour - three white threads, three red and three black - or all three colours in a different order - the first consisting of white, red and black, the second of red, black and white etc. ternos...colores (77) would suit either interpretation but the strict sense of triplici perhaps favours the latter." The witch is tying the threads around an effigy of Daphnis.
Emily - in line 81, the verbs durescit and liquescit are not subjunctive, so does ut in each phrase just mean "as"?
Yes, this is the comparative ut.
9. 2. Ecloga 9.1-29 (for Thursday, 13 March)
Emily - I am quite confused by lines 11-13. I understand the words, I just don't quite know what Vergil is implying or what a good English translation of the lines would be. I see the correlative pair tantum and quantum, but it is escaping me as to what they mean together in English...
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Emily I'm confused about 11-13 too! I know in 13 there are Chaonian pigeons, and I'm thinking veniente goes with aquila but I dont understand what the sentence is trying to say. So as much as they say the Chaonian pigeons...something...by the eagles coming?
Kyle - You need to understand a valent in the quantum part. As much as doves are strong against an eagle, so strong are his songs among spears.
Lindsey- In line 4, what does coloni mean? My dictionary only says "husbandman," but I don't understand what a husbandman is, either . . . Is it like "one who dominates," since they're talking about their fields being taken over?
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Hey Lindsey, I got husbandman too, but also "tiller of the soil" so I'm thinking its just a fancy term for a good ole farmerboy.
Right, coloni = farmers.
Kyle - My questions are these. First, line 21 has me totally perplexed. If someone could maybe help me with the subject or something, that may put me on the right track.
As Clausen 21n points out, we can supply quis caneret from line 19, so that carmina at 21 is direct object and quae sublegi tacitus tibi is a relative clause with carmina as antecedent of quae.
Second, what's up with sine in line 43? It seems so randomly placed there.
sine (9.43) is the imperative of sino, "let". A clause of indirect command depends on it, ut being omitted. "Let the mad waves strike the shores."
Lindsey- I am confused by lines 14-15, I don't know what to do w/ quod, quacumque, and incidere in this sentence. I have "unless a crow, from a hollow oak in the left, had advised me . . . before the new dispute"
quod = "as to which (thing)"; this use of the connecting relative as accusative of specification is not uncommon. quacumque = "by whatever means"; Clausen 14n cites Servius' gloss, 'quacumque ratione'. In the same note he cites DServ. (Servius qui dicitur Danielis): incidere: 'pro decidere'. So novas incidere lites = to cut off or decide new disputes.
Colleen - I found this eclogue challenging. In lines 17-18, does tua...rapta mean something like "your comforts nearly having been ripped away from you with me at the same time"? I translated it that way, but it doesn't sound right to me.
tua ... solacia (17f.) means "your soothing songs." Apostrophizing Menalcas, Lycidas says "Your soothing songs were almost stolen from us (nobis, dative of interest) together with you." With rapta supply sunt.
10. Week X 03.24 - 03.28
10. 1. Ecloga 9.30-67 (for Tuesday, 25 March)
Colleen - Is lupi Moerim videre priores (line 54) another apodosis to the indirect statement ego...memini (line 52) or does it stand alone? In other words, I can't decide whether Moeris is looking at the wolves or the wolves are looking at him.
lupi is nominative and Moerim is accusative. Wolves saw Moeris first. (I'm not sure what you mean by "another apodosis to the indirect statement" at line 52. An apodosis is the main clause of a conditional sentence.)
Emily - in line 55, I'm not sure what ista is modifying...
Kyle - I think ista is modifying an understood voce that we saw as vox a couple of lines before. Or now that I think about it, it could be modifying an understood carmina from the same line as vox.
Have you scanned the line to find out the quantity of the a?
With the line just having been scanned, I found that the a is short, so it would therefore modify an understood carmina, right?
Right.
Colleen - Sorry, Dr. Clark. I don't know what I was talking about, either. I must've had spring fever.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm wondering about lines 35 and 36; I'm understanding that he isnt seen by Varius, and something about not worthy of Cinna, but I dont understand dicere is that like he isnt worthy of being spoken about by Cinna? So far pretty much finding this quite straightforward!
videor ... dicere ... digna (lines 35 f.) = "I seem to say things worthy neither of Varius nor of Cinna." digna is substantized adjective and direct object of dicere.
Lindsey- I'm confused by lines 51-52, "saepe ego ... condere soles" I don't know what to do with me. So far I have "often I remember to establish the long days (long suns) of boyhood by singing"
me is subject of the indirect statement depending on memini. condere is the verb, which here means "put to rest", i.e. Moeris when younger would sing till past sunset.
10. 2. Ecloga 10.1-30 (for Thursday, 27 March)
Emily - in line 4, is the verb subterlabere 2nd person future passive indicative? I found that the second e scans long, so that's what I'm thinking its tense is, but I'm not totally sure about whether cum usually takes subjunctive or indicative in clauses...
Yes, subterlabere is future passive indicative. For cum with this tense, see NLG 547.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- In line 3, is sunt dicenda the gerundive of purpose?? But there isnt an ad or causa so is it actually the passive periphrastic, I think it's the latter because there's an esse verb form, sunt and the meo Gallo is the DOA??? But then it might not be dative, because it could be ablative. Not sure though, sorry, its probably very simple I just got caught up on a grammar issue for some reason. But hey I figured out the cool italics thing, I feel technologically savvy.
Emily - KA, I translated the first part of line 3, carmina sunt dicenda as "There are songs to be sung." I just took dicenda to be the gerundive pairing with carmina. Don't know if that's technically right, but...hope it helped!
Kyle - I think it's a passive paraphrastic construction, meaning "A few songs must be sung."
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Great, thanks guys! Another question in lines 28-30, so the tears, grass, goats and bees are subjects saturantur in each clause right? At first I mistook curat as the verb for each, but then realized it was singular, so saturantur is plural and satisfies the required verb needed...right? I think so. My question, do poets use this technique for ease or for meter, maybe both?
lacrimis (28) is ablative. At lines 29-30 Amor, gramina, apes, and capellae are all subjects of saturantur. What technique do you mean?
Lindsey- What is ulla modifying in line 12? I can only figure it goes with juga in line 11, since there are no Fem sg nom or abl around. Must be farther away for scansion purposes . . .
- In lines 16-18, is there an understood idea of death? The sheep aren't sorry when a man dies, just like a man isn't sorry when a sheep dies?
Colleen - Lindsey, Dr. Clark's word list helps out a lot in both cases. I am having difficulty with lines 22-23. Lycoris is nominative feminine singular, so it must be the subject of secuta est, right? But I would think Vergil is saying that there's another lover after Lycoris in a "There's plenty of fish in the sea" sort of way.
Emily - I think you have it backwards, Colleen. In lines 22-23, Vergil is commenting on how Lycoris is following after another lover...thus Gallus' love is unrequited or at least unfaithful...
11. Week XI 03.31 - 04.04
11. 1. Ecloga 10.31-77 (for Tuesday, 1 April)
Emily - in line 68, does Aethiopum go with ovis, meaning "sheep of Ethiopia"? And I'm not quite sure how to translate versemus. I found it as "to turn over" or "to whirl about," but I'm not quite sure what is meant by "turning over sheep"...
versare ovis = "drive the sheep (to pasture)." The sheep of the Ethiopians, together with the other elements in line 68, function as a figure for any far-removed and difficult task. None of these labores, Gallus says, will alter Love (i.e. the suffering it brings).
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Hey I'm confused about line 67, what does alta mean?? I looked it up and it just doesnt make sense to say the dying ocean is parched on an elm. Hmmm.
Emily - KA, in line 67, alta I took as the adjective altus -a -um meaning "high" or "tall." It is simply modifying ulmo which though 2nd declension in form, is in fact feminine in gender (the form of the adjective altus -a - um puzzled me for a bit before I realized that tree names are often like that).
Kyle - What's up with all the infinitives in line 53. There are three of them, and I only see one verb. Do they all go with teneris?
pati is complementary with malle, as is incidere. The infinitive phrases are subjects of est (line 52), and certum is subject complement. The thought of certum est (sc. mihi) is "I am resolved". teneris is an adjective modifying arboribus (line 54).
ATTENDITE OMNES! (to get your attention). I need to correct the last vocabulary entry in the word list I distributed. saturae (line 77) is feminine vocative plural from satur, -a, -um, "full, fully fed".
Lindsey- What is a dura doing in line 47? Does dura modify frigora, "hard winters"? Then I still don't understand what a is doing, since there's no ablative nearby it can modify.
a is an exclamatory particle. dura is vocative singular. Note that the final a scans short.
Colleen - Emily, thanks for the note on the last translation! I did have it backwards. And I believe I've missed question-answering time, but I am glad to know where omnia vincit Amor comes from now.
11. 2. Georgicon 1.1-42 (for Thursday, 3 April)
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm not really sure about how to give a clear translation for line 22, I have roughly "and you who feed the new grains...." then I'm not sure what to do with the double negative, does the negation become positive then? or is it "not by no seed??" or he's feeding the new grains by seeds? Hmmm, I dont know why this line is giving me trouble, but its that non ullo I guess.
fruges = fruits of the earth. There's only one negative in line 22, and it negates ullo. quique novas alitis non ullo semine fruges invokes the gods who nurture spontaneous, i.e non-cultivated, plants.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Just wanted to say that Thomas' notes are much, much more helpful than Clausen! They are much appreciated!
Emily - I am confused about the first couple of lines...am I supposed to understand faciat with quo sidere terram vertere...?
Lines 1-4 consist of indirect questions depending on canere incipiam (5). Here is the structure of the indirect questions, with the interrogative words in bold:
quid faciat ...
quo sidere ... conveniat
quae cura boum (sc. sit)
qui cultus habendo sit pecori
apibus quanta experientia parcis (sc. sit)
Kyle - So, in lines 25-35, we're in one big whether. . .or clause, right? Are the triggers urbisne, an, and anne? The whole sentence was pretty long, so I kind of got lost.
Exactly right, Kyle. One big "whether ... or" construction.
Emily - I am confused about the clause(s) in lines 24 and 25, quem...incertum est. I am not sure how to translate sint habitura or what quem stands for...I am just really confused as to how to put all the pieces together to make sense in English.
Colleen - Emily, it's just that "whether...or" construction Kyle and Dr. Clark are talking about. Thomas notes that Virgil uses the vivid present instead of the future subjunctive. I'm not sure how this translates into English.
12. Week XII 04.7 - 04.11
12. 1. Georgicon 1.43-117 (for Tuesday, 8 April)
Emily - in line 56, am I to understand mittit from line 57 to go with Tmolus...? As in "Tmolus (sends) fragrances of saffron, India sends ivory..."? I am a little confused about the construction using ut as well. I know it doesn't stand for "like" or "as," so...does it mean "how" in this instance?
Yes to both questions. We understand mittit as verb with Tmolus. Here ut means "how." Thomas ad loc. suggests one might have expected mittat in the indirect questions.
Emily - I am having trouble figuring out what late means in line 116...
adverb from latus, -a, -um = widely; probably modifying obducto.
Lindsey- Is line 70 a golden line?
yes. sterilem = adjective A, exiguus = adjective B, umor = noun B, harenam = noun A; verb in the middle.
Kyle - I don't get how cura (line 52) fits into the sentence.
subject of sit.
es
Kathryn-Alizabeth- In lines 57-60 the verb mittit from line 57 goes with Chalybes, but I was wondering whether mittit is the verb of the subject Pontus or if "Chalybes sends..., then Pontus with the aromatic beaver secretion", something like that??
mittit (with appropriate adjustments for plural number) is to be understood with six subjects: Tmolus (56), India (57), Sabaei (57), Chalybes (58), Pontus (58), and Epiros (Greek nominative) (59).
Emily - in line 59, Epiros is subject (like the lines before with all the place names) and palmas is direct object, right...? So if that's the case, I am confused about what the genitives Eliadum and equarum are doing...do they go with palmas or are they their own entity? And if Eliadum equarum does go with palmas, what does that mean..."the palms of Elian horses"...?
Eliadum modifies equarum, which in turn "goes with" palmas, a metonym for victories. See Thomas 59n.
Emily - ah, I remember reading that note but I didn't understand how "Epirus gives us the Olympian victories of her mares" could be rendered from so simple a Latin phrase, Eliadum palmas Epiros equarum...upon further consideration, it makes sense...I am confused also about lines 75 and 76. Are fragilis calamos and silvam sonatem both the direct objects of sustuleris? In English, perhaps, "you will have raised up fragile reeds and a resounding forest"..?
calamos and silvam, connoting the undergrowth of an uncleared forest, refer to the tangle of the leguminous plants.
12. 2. Georgicon 1.118-146 (for Thursday, 10 April)
Kyle - What's the function of nihil (line 119)? And on a bigger scale, I'm having trouble putting that whole sentence together to make it make any grammatical sense.
Emily - Kyle, I was a little confused about nihil in those lines as well, but I just used it as a word of negation, as "no bad goose or Strymonian cranes...etc." Don't know if that's right, though...or how that explains what it's doing there...
nihil is adverbial accusative, amounting to a strong negative.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I'm not sure about line 137, I understand that the sailor is naming the stars, but what isnumeros modifying? stellis isnt acc. pl, does it modify the following stars listed?
Emily - KA, numeros is just another accusative direct object of the verb fecit and stellis is the plural dative indirect object...so both nomina and numeros are the d.o.s: "the sailor fashioned names and numbers to the stars..."
Lindsey- Lines 139-140 are confusing me, mostly fallere visco inventum. I have "to trip things found with mistletoe" which doesn't make sense to me. Do I have the wrong meanings? Thomas suggests inventum as inventum sunt, with those infinitives as subject, which makes sense. But the sense of "to trip with mistletoe" is still confusing.
viscum is birdlime, which is made from mistletoe berries. Here's the definition in Wikipedia
: "Birdlime is a viscid, adhesive substance used in trapping birds. It is spread on a branch or twig, upon which a bird may land and be caught." As for fallere, its root sense is to trip; by extension, it means to trick or deceive ("trap" in this context). Thomas's suggestion is to understand inventum sc. est with the infinitives as subject, as Lindsey notes. So the Iron Age brings with it, along with other labors, the methods of hunting and trapping animals.13. Week XIII 04.14 - 04.18
13. 1. Georgicon 1.147-246 (for Tuesday, 15 April)
Emily - as usual, it completely escapes me as to what the correlative pair tam...quam (from lines 204 and 206) would translate to in English...
Lindsey- Did the Romans use feet as a measurement? In line 171, it looks like an 8 foot pole, and I can't think what else pedes could mean. Emily, I thought tam . . . quam was "as much as"
Right, pedes = feet, as a measure of length.
Emily - thanks Lindsey! I always forget...anyway, I'm having some trouble sorting out lines 212-214. In line 212, what am I supposed to understand as the verb? Is it licet from 214 or does licet strictly belong to the dum clause?
licet (214) is only in the dum-clause. At 213 we must understand est with subject tempus (it's time to ...).
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I was wondering about the definition of triboli in line 153, I couldnt find it in my dictionary at all however I did find something quite close (and would make sense) tribulus, tribuli which would mean thorny plant. Was anyone able to find triboli? And, Emily I'm probably not right but I did take licet as the main verb with the dependant infinitives tegere and incumbere in lines 212-214, if that makes any sense.
Kyle - KA, I think you're right there. I've found that some words have an interchangeable "u" and "o." The word for a wound, which shows up a lot in the Aeneid, can be written either vulnus or volnus.
Emily - yeah, Kyle and KA, I took triboli as tribuli meaning "thistle" or something like that...
Colleen - Kyle's right. KA, Kyle, and Emily: If you read my earlier note, it was wrong. Sorry! Triboli (153) does mean "thistle."
13. 2. Georgicon 1.247-286 (for Thursday, 17 April)
Emily - I am confused about lines 260 and 261. Is forent an alternative for futurus esse or is it some other verb...? I am also confused about maturare datur and what that means..."he is given to haste"...?
forent (260) is an alternative form for essent, imperfect subjunctive of sum. maturare (= to do in good time) is subject of datur, with the sense of "is granted".
Emily - I am a little confused as to what is going on in lines 281 through 283 as well, what with all the names of things and such. Is Ossa a place...? And if it is, does that mean line 281 could translate something like, "There were three efforts to build Ossa on Pelion"? Oh, I just read Thomas' note...I think I get it, still...
Colleen's comment (below) is correct. Olympus, Ossa, and Pelion are all mountains in the Olympus range, located in the district of Larissa in Thessaly. We gazed together on Olympus last summer (from the archeological site of Dion).
Colleen - Ossa refers to a mountain in Greece. I learned that from crossword puzzles haha. I'm also confused about the meaning of lines 281-283. It seems like mountains are being piled upon mountains, or I just completely lost control of my translation.
Kyle - What does prensos(line 285) mean? I tried to look it up in my dictionary, but I still couldn't find it.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Kyle I looked up prensos and it directed me to prehendo, prehendere, prehendi, prehensum, meaning to lay hold of, seize, or grasp. I have a question about lines 260-261, I'm just pretty confused about whats going on here, something about doing something in fair weather but I cant get much more than that.
The idea at 260 f. is that, rather than waiting for good weather, the farmer can do some tasks in good time that would have to be done hastily if he waited for the sun to come out.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- So in line 283, is pater metonymy for Jupiter? Pater + fulmine = Jupiter I'm thinking. And why are mountains being tossed about? To undo what the brothers did? I'm either way off on this translation, or just dont understand what's going on because I dont know the mythology.
Lindsey- Yeah, KA, pater is Jupiter, but other than that I'm with you about this bit being confusing. Thomas said Vergil is working off of Hesiod and Homer, tossing about mountains. I don't understand the relevance of this little story to which days are good for what, though.
These fratres are Otus and Ephialtes, sons of iphimedia by Poseidon. They conspire to confront heaven, i.e. the gods, by piling mountains on top of one another. Vergil has their birth being concurrent with that of Orcus (god of the Underworld), the Eumenidies (aka Furies), and the earth-born Titans Coeus, iapetus, and Typhoeus, all of whom challenged the Olympian gods. So that day of the month (Quintam) is a day of ill omen and to be avoided.
Emily - Kyle, KA is right, prensos is perf. passive participle modifying boves. I translated the beginning of line 285 as "and to tame the captured bulls"...
Right. In other words the seventeenth day of the month is good for taking hold of oxen and taming, i.e. domesticating, them.
14. Week XIV 04.21 - 04.25
14. 1. Georgicon 1.287-392 (for Tuesday, 22 April)
Kyle - How does torquentem (line 309) fit into the sentence? I don't see anything for it to modify, but then I may not be looking hard enough.
torquentem modifies an understood noun or pronoun such as quendam, which would be subject of all the infinitives at lines 305-309. The frame work of these lines is glandes tum stringere tempus (sc. quendam). At line 309 we understand "it's the time for one twisting the thong of a Balearic sling to transfix deer.
Kathryn-Alizabeth- 293-294, I was wondering if the wife is consoling herself/ the long work with a song, nothing is reflexive so is it the work? And then in 295, is Volcano fire here and not weapons? And Kyle I just took torquentem as a present participle, I translated it as: swinging balearic slings by a flaxen rod/whip...; just what I got.
At 293 Vergil says the woman consoles her long labor with song, i.e. she sings to lighten her toil. As Snow White says, Whistle While You Work
.Volcano (295) is a metonym for fire.
Emily - What is the subject of deserit in line 364? I don't think it can be fulicae because I thought that was plural, but I don't see anything else around...or am I missing something? oh, I see it now, it must be ardea that goes with deserit and volat in that line...
right.
Lindsey-In line 339, where is operatus coming from? The closest thing I can find is opertus, from operio, meaning hidden
operor, operari, operatus sum = to work, labor, be busy.
14. 2. Georgicon 1.393-437 (for Thursday, 24 April)
Emily - I am having some trouble with lines 413-414. I took iuvat...progeniem parvam...revisere nidos as "it delights the little offspring to revisit their nests," but I am having trouble understanding what imbribus actis and dulcisque are doing. I know imbribus actis are ablative, but is actis from the noun actum or is it a perfect passive participle? Is imbribus actis an ablative absolute, or is it just some other prepositionless ablative...? And I have no clue why dulcisque is just stuck in the middle of the line...
imbribus actis (413) is ablative absolute.
Kyle - I don't think progeniem is an object of iuvat, but rather of revisere. Also, when I scanned the line, I found that dulcis is accusative plural, so the line says something like, "To look back on the small offspring and sweet nests is pleasing."
Right, Kyle. progeniem and nidos are both objects of revisere (= to visit again, i.e. imbribus actis, the rain having been driven away) (414).
Kathryn-Alizabeth- I was wondering about the subject in lines 398-399, so alcyones is that nominative plural? Because I originally took it as accusative but its the only thing that makes sense as subject, and pinnas here arent mussels, but they're feathers right?
alcyones (399) is subject. pennas = wings (made of feathers, naturally).
Kathryn-Alizabeth- So line 428, what is nigrum modifying?
aëra (428), here in the sense of "mist."
Colleen - I had difficulty understanding the purpose of the gerundive lavandi (387).
lavandi is objective genitive with studio (387) BTW, lavandi is a gerund.
15. Week XV 04.28 - 05.01
15. 1. Georgicon 1.438-514 (for Tuesday, 29 April)
Emily - I am confused about line 449...I am not quite sure what to do with multa...horrida. I know that horrida is an adjective that means "spiky" or "bristly," and that it is modifying multa, but "much" of what...? I can't make sense of it...
multa modifies grando (449), and so does horrida. We might translate, "so much rough hail rattling on rooftops bounds up."
Emily - I've just finished reading through the end, and all I can say is wow. I thought the lines about the farmer digging up the relics of past wars was wonderful, as well as all the war imagery. For some reason these last 70-odd lines seemed much easier to get through than the rest of the poem...anyway...
Kyle - What is the simulacra (line 477) talking about? I get that it's some kind of image or likeness, but whose likeness is it?
Kathryn-Alizabeth- Hey Kyle, I looked it up in Cassell and it states more precisely that Virgil is talking about ghosts! So I was wondering about line 480; and so: I know that maestum modifies ebur, but ivory doesnt make a lot of sense, so I'm wondering is ebur standing for statues because they do mention templis?
Lindsey- KA, that would make sense, it probably is a metaphor, or alludes to something. I'm confused by line 466, I'm assuminbg I have to supply est, but since that's passive, I don't know wht to do w/ Romam.
One of the portents after Caesar's assassination was said to be that images in temples wept. Hence, maestum inlacrimat ... ebur.
About Lindsey's question on 466 - we do need to understand est with miseratus. The verb is deponent, so Romam is direct object.
Colleen - Lindsey, I think you're right about supplying est in line 466. But I'm not sure about the rest, either. And i do think ebur refers to the ivory statues in the temples.
